tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post1380321327430959160..comments2023-11-21T12:51:59.908-08:00Comments on Murderboarding Inc.: The Show Must Go On Haven S3E13 Thanks For The MemoriesAnna Hammetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10095633218958433882noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-55222952308750449652015-12-31T16:21:12.685-08:002015-12-31T16:21:12.685-08:00And forgot to mention in my post, this was the sam...And forgot to mention in my post, this was the same hotel where Audrey lived before moving into the loft above the Grey Gull.James Fieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03278579709403454732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-88402926530659151132015-12-31T16:20:22.412-08:002015-12-31T16:20:22.412-08:00So...this note comes years late and after the seri...So...this note comes years late and after the series has ended. But in the recap above there was a mention of the hotel with the flags in front where Arla took James while he was sick. In real life that is the Mecklenburgh Inn (be sure to include the "h" in Meclenburgh if you Google it). The Inn is located just a couple of blocks from the building that was used as both the Haven Herald and the Gun & Rose Diner. A while back I did a blog post with a bunch if Google Street View links that let you explore the area and it's one of the locations on this page: http://jvfields.blogspot.com/2015/12/google-street-view-tour-of-haven.html<br />James Fieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03278579709403454732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-74179136800061816112013-01-27T23:53:03.042-08:002013-01-27T23:53:03.042-08:00Adding to that, we know Sarah gave baby James to t...Adding to that, we know Sarah gave baby James to the Cogans "to protect him". From who or what? It fits my theory that her incarnations have had offspring in the past and they have been murdered by the Teagues brothers and/or their ancestors/incarnations or someone else for nknown reasons.Pixydoodlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16155617980638771934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-83822836821918859082013-01-27T13:24:13.277-08:002013-01-27T13:24:13.277-08:00I really do think Vince killed James. This makes ...I really do think Vince killed James. This makes sense to me because of the conversation between the Teagues' and Not_Tommy. The "I'm going to enjoy killing you again" "no it's my turn" leads my twisted mind to speculate that the Teagues' thought Tommy might have been Lucy's offspring (his age fits and she could have went off to have a baby in the unaccounted for 6 months. In my head they brothers and/or their ancestors/incarnations have been killing Au/Lu/Sa's offspring for generations because her having a baby with Nathan is bad for stopping the troubles. Yeah,, I know this is very far-fetched but I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this.Pixydoodlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16155617980638771934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-32376372799873124812013-01-25T15:02:08.375-08:002013-01-25T15:02:08.375-08:00With the way Havenites accept explanations of gas ...With the way Havenites accept explanations of gas leaks and bird flu, i think most have buried their heads firmly in the sand and are grateful for the 27 years without Troubles. I think for some they just think she's a relative of the incarnation they met before and others probably get their memories of 'barn day' erased. The others like the Teagues, chief realise her importance and i guess let her recharge her love batteries and go back in because other options haven't worked and the consequences of her not going are too great. I guess its sacrifice one person for thousands although it is rather cruel. I have always wondered how Duke even knew Lucy gave him the necklace if he has no memories of the day. Did the necklace giving happen before or after that day? With the way simon crocker hated lucy, why would he let her near him? Peridot81https://www.blogger.com/profile/03204762117936371835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-87851223453829234422013-01-25T12:31:03.309-08:002013-01-25T12:31:03.309-08:00I don't know if this is necessarily the spot f...I don't know if this is necessarily the spot for this comment, but something that bugs me is that there have to be lots of people in this small town who have seen multiple incarnations of Audrey/Lucy/Sarah in their lifetimes. Dave and Vince have met 3 versions of her, and Garland probably has. Garland was old enough to have met & remembered Sarah in 1955, and after she had her encounter with Nathan wouldn't she have connected with the family with the same name in town at that time, met little Garland? Eleanor Carr looked old enough to have seen 3 versions of Audrey.<br /><br />I mean, potentially anybody who lives to 60 or beyond could have seen and remembered 3 incarnations of Audrey in their lifetimes, just depending on where in the cycle they were born (and figuring that 6 is old enough to form reliable memories). To me, that 3 visitations in a lifetime seems thematically significant (rule of 3s), as well as the point where you'd have to say to yourself that this isn't just coincidence. And the implication is that the Aud/Lu/Sar visitations have been going on for centuries.<br /><br />So, are lots of people in the town aware of who and what she is? Is part of the mystery that the townspeople are taught/warned not to alert her to who she is when she comes? <br /><br />I think that the reason Dave saw Sarah as the scariest thing he could imagine is a toss-up between being afraid of retribution for something bad he and/or Vince did to her (like killing her baby when he was CK), or because she's built up as this mythical bogeyman-type figure to all the residents of this small town. Better be good, or Aud/Lu/Sar will come get you. You know? <br /><br />I mean, this weird figure who never ages and comes back with a different identity every 27 years, with the Troubles? That's got to prompt some kind of oral history at least. <br /><br />And of course we don't get good information about the memory issues. Duke doesn't remember the day the CK died, but didn't remember Lucy at all, and it seems she spent months in Haven. Maybe he didn't cross paths with her other than the day of the murder? But there are some people who clearly remember her from past incarnations. <br /><br />Are Vince and Dave really unique for having all this knowledge about her that they won't share? Or are we to believe that all of the "old guard" of older folks who've seen her 3 times now know what's going on but are sworn to silence for some reason? The fact that Dave and/or Vince have given her some information/help, is that contrary to some kind of warning associated with the curse? <br /><br />I mean, is this poor woman being gaslighted by all of this weird town, who recognize her but pretend they don't know anything about her? Why, when the cumulative knowledge she acquires might be able to actually permanently stop the Troubles?Nyxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17196366093553460915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-22789461992750845632013-01-24T18:54:02.191-08:002013-01-24T18:54:02.191-08:00Yes! Subtle clues (and not so subtle clues - at l...Yes! Subtle clues (and not so subtle clues - at least in hindsight). Rewatching the first episode, I realized both Nathan and Duke save Audrey's life before they actually *meet* her. . . . C Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702192405714153388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-53000902840206200812013-01-24T00:58:49.383-08:002013-01-24T00:58:49.383-08:00The creators have said they have a concrete outlin...The creators have said they have a concrete outline of the mythology and know the last scene of the series.(but we can't really determine if that is true)The first season was mostly 'trouble of the week' with bits of mythology thrown in but most episodes were written by the creators so i think they threw in those hints. The series started out slow and really picked up towards the end of s1, so we really knew nothing. The scene with Garland looking at Audrey while she was holding the flowers we later found out Lucy liked was quite significant but without knowing what we know now i had never noticed. Even Vince staring at her whilst she was trying out dresses. So yes rewatching may be useful for subtle clues. Peridot81https://www.blogger.com/profile/03204762117936371835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-67990070448688871992013-01-23T21:23:43.231-08:002013-01-23T21:23:43.231-08:00So, I agree that Garland had feelings for Lucy. E...So, I agree that Garland had feelings for Lucy. Even if Aud/Lu/Sar doesn't have clear memories of past incarnations, we've seen that there's some bleed-through (Audrey remember bits of being Lucy, echoes of things like "I always go for the shy ones"), and I can buy that there's an affinity and kind of emotional echo with the people she's previously been attached to. <br /><br />I'd love to go back through past episodes and scour for clues, but one thing that makes me nervous is that I'm not entirely convinced that the writers actually know the answer to the mystery, and that they've known it from the beginning. I have a sinking feeling that they may be making it up as they go along, at least as to the cause of and cure for the Troubles. So it may not be productive to study Audrey's interactions with Garland in S1, kwim? Nyxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17196366093553460915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-4828461483226029282013-01-22T13:56:16.018-08:002013-01-22T13:56:16.018-08:00I think Garland was in love with Lucy, the cracks ...I think Garland was in love with Lucy, the cracks when she came back to Haven, and in the pilot there was a point when he was looking at her from a distance, very unlike the Chief we got to know. Lucy probably had feelings for him too until they found out about Nathan and Sarah (I presume Lucy must have known all this). Would explain the tension between father and son. If Max Hansen was as abusive as the Chief said, Lucy could have asked Garland to look after him or Garland could have decided to so probably with the Teagues help so raising the man who would fall in love with the woman you loved would have been complex. Not that i think Garland didn't love Nathan of course. His "take care of our girl" at the end of season 2 was also telling.<br />I wonder if Lucy and James knew that they were related right when he got to Haven or a bit later. Wasn't Simon married at the time, it was implied he was a horrible husband and father so unless Duke's mother was dead by '83', I don't think Lucy would have an affair with a married man, but it's a possibility. Max Hansen could have been an acquaintance too. <br /><br />Jordan and Arla in the barn should create some fireworks, Duke shot Jordan, she's always hated his guts, Arla has beef with him too, both women hate Audrey. It's a set up for lots of drama, that's if they can locate each other in that thing.<br />Peridot81https://www.blogger.com/profile/03204762117936371835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-49639678246751549072013-01-22T13:14:11.107-08:002013-01-22T13:14:11.107-08:00http://www.randomfandemonium.com/interviews.html T...http://www.randomfandemonium.com/interviews.html This is the site where I read an early interview with the creators about the tattoo. The one that Julia shows Duke on the gravestones does look a bit different at least in terms of it may represent a female but it's unclear. From the interview it seemed it wasn't clear too, at that point what it should look like exactly.<br />Peridot81https://www.blogger.com/profile/03204762117936371835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-76038761889078513422013-01-22T10:51:40.404-08:002013-01-22T10:51:40.404-08:00We know the feeling. And this thing is huge anyway...We know the feeling. And this thing is huge anyway, so, as you've seen up above, we're fine with people commenting with their thoughts as they have them. :)<br /><br />I definitely think James was biding his time. He didn't have much strength left, why would he use it before he had to? And at that point not only did he not know her, he still believed Arla's story about her trying to kill him, so it's not unreasonable to think he had a somewhat visceral ho-shit-people-trying-to-kill-me reaction.<br /><br />The biggest problem with James showing up, seeing the memory, and running back into the barn is... that's a barn within a barn. So any theory we (that is, the two of us, you're free to theorize whatever you want!) make has to be predicated on one of two things: either 1) the barn was part of the memory and it visited 1955 somewhere between 1983 when it picked up James and 2010, or 2) the barnvatar is fucking with people's heads. If it's 1, then the barn would have to respond to Sarah because Audrey's already IN the barn, and Sarah hasn't had time to get all "fucking HAVEN" yet. Although she could be ready for a take-me-away-from-all-this based on war trauma, she doesn't seem actively traumatized at the time. If it's 2, which I'm more inclined to believe... who the hell knows. And the barn thanks you for your appreciation. >.><br /><br />Well, something happened with Jordan's body! I feel a bit sorry for Audrey, locked in the barn with Arla and Jordan, both of whom are a few degrees shy of stable and both of whom have reason to want Audrey deader than dead. It's possible that Jordan really is sincerely dead and they just forgot to have Kelton be a corpse, but they've got a history of paying attention to surroundings. I doubt it. Also Kelton's been really cagey on Twitter about whether or not she'll be back next season.<br /><br />That's always possible, assuming the meteor storm does fall around the same time. Which they do in real life! Always in October. So it's a good theory. But the timeline has been thoroughly skewered already, it's hard to say what's going on because our initial dataset is unreliable. Candidates for Lucy's love might be James, or even Garland or possibly Vince or Simon? Simon seemed REALLY bitter about something and definitely wanted Lucy dead and Duke to kill people and end their Troubles, but at the same time went to great lengths to keep Duke from knowing anything about his heritage until he learned it for himself, which is weird and contradictory. Possibly Simon and Lucy were in love until Simon found out it was Sarah who killed his father? So many possibilities, and so much conflicting data! It's great! Kitty Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524808952260453841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-58401402394890934882013-01-22T10:24:46.934-08:002013-01-22T10:24:46.934-08:00I think part of the pacing problems were due to th...I think part of the pacing problems were due to the new writers on board, not necessarily new to writing writers but the fact that they'd brought in writers who hadn't worked on Haven before. The other problem is that they didn't know until they were done filming, if I remember right, so they'd have to figure out how to at least bring it to some kind of conclusion and if they wanted to get out some information before they got pulled... It is, though, definitely backloaded. Definitely agree with you and Nyx on that one. <br /><br />I'm hesitant to pin down an exact cause to the Troubles on account of we know so little about colonial (actual colonial, not freaking late 1700s, late Confederation, as Beksy correctly states) Haven that it's hard to say. I do think the Troubles predate Haven, and definitely SOMETHING supernatural because of the way they keep hammering on the Haven being a true haven part. That implies that they're following the old trope of something being shattered and now the broken pieces exist as corrupted magic. <br /><br />Vince and Dave are annoying. Just in general and also in so many specific ways. Vince in particular, he seems like both the more deadly and the more stable of the two, which does not reassure me at all. But I kind of wonder if Sarah is Dave's greatest fear because Sarah had such a hold over Vince. (And we went back and checked; you're right, Dave does say he's older. Innnnteresting. We'll have to adjust to remember that.) Anyway, I wonder if Dave feared Sarah's influence over Vince, especially considering they hammered on that connection a lot in the last episode.<br /><br />I figured the Morpheus comment was a reference to both the creepy mentor thing but also the fact that she was now guessing that Howard appearing in her dreams was actually Howard, or Agent Fuck You as we love to call him. Because if I realized that, I'd be pissed, too.<br /><br />If it's Julia's tattoo it must be just that one, because looking at both designs from what people have drawn and uploaded all the figures are the same. We'll have to confirm! But I would not be surprised if the necklace, or something like it, was an artifact belonging to the original person who became AudSarLu. We know it goes back many generations, and it seems intrinsic to whatever person or group started the whole mess. Which causes one to wonder why the everloving hell it showed up on Vince's arm. <br /><br />We've got some theories downthread about the aspects of love and ending the Troubles, but definitely a love relationship going horribly wrong is one of our favorite theories for the cause of it. Kitty Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524808952260453841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-68785323493701933182013-01-22T10:08:37.443-08:002013-01-22T10:08:37.443-08:00I guess my thinking on that is that we STILL know ...I guess my thinking on that is that we STILL know jackshit about the process of James' murder investigation, let alone death. Yes, if Vince did it he absolutely would have made it look like an accident, but it's possible that Vince did exactly that but eventually they uncovered it as a murder; the headline in the Herald sort of suggests that. Certainly in the novella there's a lot of doubt about cause of death, initially. And Sarah tried to resist at least briefly, plus we have no idea how Lucy's circumstances differed. If Vince realized who James was and then realized that Lucy might resist going in the barn because she wanted to stay with her son, I could easily see him taking that option away from her. We know he has absolutely no qualms about withholding information, feeding her information for his own ends, or creating a fucking paramilitary organization to force her into a choice, and also that he seems to have killed before and enjoyed it. Granted, the last could be bravado, but in conjunction with the way he talked to Max Hansen I would be not even a little surprised to learn that he's similar to Arla but with much, much better control. Scary control. And as a last possibility, he could have instructed a Guard member to do it - we know he doesn't exactly have the brightest help in this cycle, he might select for only a modicum of intelligence and prioritize willingness to follow orders. Though we also don't know how tight his control on the Guard is, so that's somewhat speculative at best.<br /><br />The timeline is completely fucked for Lucy Ripley's era, and I can't figure out if that's continuity error or if that's something the writers have yet to explain to us. (Possibly both. They're pretty good at doing patch jobs on continuity issues with this show.) But yeah, <i>someone</i> should have known who James Cogan was, particularly if he kicked up dust about looking for Sarah Vernon; anyone involved with the last round of Troubles would have picked up their heads and gone "arooo?"<br /><br />Oh god I am so not thinking about the Pet Semetery parallels with that option. I really, really hope there's just a massive fucking continuity error and that she didn't dig up his body. Because EW.Anna Hammetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10095633218958433882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-35087698903134174312013-01-22T09:53:10.182-08:002013-01-22T09:53:10.182-08:00We're very firmly OT3 here, but we're also...We're very firmly OT3 here, but we're also very firmly ship and let ship. There is room enough on this ocean for several freaking flotillas of ships! And more importantly, as we say in our 'about us' blurb, we don't hold with people biting heads off for not liking the same things. So feel free to squee and revel in and point out your favorite whoever/whoever bits! Or whoever/whoever/whoever. Or whoever/whoever/whoever/whoever, if that's your taste and times being what they are. <br /><br />As far as AudSarLu and the Crocker line goes, we've definitely been wondering how the two connect. Part of me likes the AudSarLu self-sacrifice at the hands of a Crocker theory, if only because of an element of narrative neatness to it. Plus, between Duke and Nathan, Duke's far more likely to go through with that kind of solution if Audrey asks him to. On the other hand, that also puts either all the Troubles square on AudSarLu's doorstep, so to speak, meaning that killing her would end all of them meaning she's the cause of everyone's Troubles... which actually also goes with the self-sacrifice, as maybe part of her feels bad about what's happening because of her. And on the other hand, it might just work in the straightforward way of ending the one immunity bloodline Haven has. On the other hand, I also like Nyx's theory that they're intertwined and connected. Perhaps (as A says it simultaneously downpost) way back in the day a Crocker was the beloved of AudSarLu and somehow she conveyed on that bloodline a part of the Troublestopping power?Kitty Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524808952260453841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-48778595529911031432013-01-22T09:53:07.039-08:002013-01-22T09:53:07.039-08:00Scrambling down here from the thread up above wher...Scrambling down here from the thread up above where I just realized that it's possible, given the barnvatar's utter lack of humanity, that his solution to the Troubles, i.e. kill the one you love, might just kill all the Troubled.<br /><br />Which says to me that the barn and AudSarLu are indeed THOROUGHLY linked to the Troubles, and engaging in some rampant speculation, here: the original AudSarLu either was a Crocker or loved a Crocker, thereby giving them a Trouble related to her immunity. (I'm honestly hoping for the latter, so we don't have to deal with the incest issues even if Duke is a long ways from closely related to Audrey at this point.) And at some point that relationship, whatever it was, went very, very bad, leading to the need for the barn; it's almost implied without outright stating that there WAS a point at which the Troubles were not world-ending but instead just kind of sucky for their various bearers. Or the relationship going bad started the Troubles; hard to say which. At any rate, it seems likely that the way to end the cycle in a healing manner rather than a destructive one does involve love - if a Crocker sacrificed AudSarLu for the sake of power/fear/jealousy/something a long time ago, perhaps Duke's sacrificial love for Audrey will help right that wrong.<br /><br />(I also wonder how Lucy and Simon's death ties into this - did it perhaps come about as she tried to get to know him well enough to enact Omnia Vincit Amor, and that backfired in tragedy? We have next to no solid data on how he actually died.)Anna Hammetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10095633218958433882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-56835757803060888292013-01-22T09:42:11.272-08:002013-01-22T09:42:11.272-08:00Yeah, I absolutely am not buying that Lucy's s...Yeah, I absolutely am not buying that Lucy's solution as told to us in Business As Usual has a DAMN thing to do with killing the one you love, which may mean... okay, backing up. Assume the something horrible is James' murder, assume they'd found the solution of killing the one you love together and then someone had killed James, possibly whoever else was there at the time of said discovery. (It is, after all, ENTIRELY possible that it was vaguely worded enough to lead someone *coughVincecough* to believe that anyone killing someone AduSarLu loves would do.) The discovery of the cause might have come after that; and it's possible that Lucy knew what the solution was, had rejected it out of hand, and ALSO knew what the cause was but didn't have time to come up with a better solution than going in the barn.<br /><br />Something something. I definitely think the barnvatar's job is to mislead, inveigle, confuse, and obfuscate anything that would be at all USEFUL to AudSarLu ending the Troubles. And I'm not convinced that the cited solution of killing the one you love would result in a <i>positive</i> end to the Troubles, as destructive a solution as that is... SHIT. What if ending the Troubles is ending the TroublED? Duke's Trouble, taken to a mass genocide. Which links the barn/vatar to the CROCKERS very emphatically, which implies that somehow this all got started because of the Crockers and whoever the original AudSarLu was.<br /><br />As far as your suggestion above, that Audrey charged up faster this time... also possible! My main problem with the barn-as-amplifier and all of that is that Howard is, in fact, a lying liar who lies so it's really difficult to figure out how the mechanism ACTUALLY works - not least because Howard is the sort of creature who lies with the truth, so I don't doubt that what we have is accurate but not at all a full picture. We can empirically state that AudSarLu entering the barn and the barn disappearing with her inside it stops the Troubles. We can't state that the barnvatar's data on WHY that is is completely accurate, see also lying liar. Grumble.Anna Hammetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10095633218958433882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-13791554435779293662013-01-22T01:29:20.698-08:002013-01-22T01:29:20.698-08:00My brain is spinning with too many questions and o... My brain is spinning with too many questions and observations to wait on leaving this comment until tommorow, when I've read the speculation portion. Feel free to ignore anything I say if you happened to address it later.<br /> 1. "Meanwhile James is clearly listening to them as none of them are paying attention to him... everyone is worried about James and working their way around to sticking him back in the barn like it was the Stargate sarcophagus, when James takes the decision out of their hands and goes in anyway."<br /> One, I LOVE the StarGate reference. If they're not careful, James will be the Daniel Jackson of Haven; he just never dies. Permanently, anyway. Back to my original observing. Something I noticed rewatching this episode was how James cracks his eyes open and looks at the barn only after Audrey says she's not ready to leave yet, which I think he interpretted as 'oh-no-Mom-still-wants-to-kill-me-better-try-to-lose-her-in-the-only-place-I-can-hide.' I don't know, thoughts?<br /> 2. "So, yes, James! Shows up, squeaks, runs back into the barn, like you do when your parents are having sex. I would dearly love an explanation for why the barn showed up in the first goddamn place and if that's part of the memory or if that's Howard's current 2010 fuckery. I'm guessing the latter based on James wearing the same clothes we last saw him in, which, ew."<br /> Being a shipper, the conclusion I immediately leapt to was since the barn only appears when AudSarLu is ready, at the precise moment, she wanted to leave. Maybe she was just feeling DONE with all the crazy. Like you say, frucking Haven. Or just done with all the hurt she's had heaped upon her, the lastest being the man she's in love with slept with her 50's nurse self and kept it a secret even while slowly patching things up in the present. This might be my Nuadrey mind being biased, though.<br /> Also, I love your psuedo-barn voice. "Quick, let's blow the barn up!" "Excuse you? GTFO." It took me a few minutes to recover from the fits of giggles.<br /> 3. I love Jordan, she's such a fascinating character, so I was horrified to see her shot and hoped she'd gotten taken with the Barn. I was waiting with bated breath to see if you guys thought she'd been Barn-sucked like Arla. I'm gla dyou do. Lord knows we're long overdue for an Audrey/Jordan catfight scene, because it get the feeling Jordan's got a lot of fury stored up at AudSarLu and being trapped in a barn for 27 years seems primetime for working that out.<br /> 4. "We will also mention here that Sarah and Lucy seemed to spend longer in Haven than Audrey has, roughly a year apiece to Audrey's apparent 6ish months, which begs the question how long does it take for her to recharge? Is there some set length to this, a deadline of sorts?" <br /> I think it's not so much how long it takes to recharge as how long it takes AudSarLu and the Barn to run out of energy. Assuming that the Hunter storm falls around the same time of year every 27 years - that's a mouthful - I think the storm is the deadline. She just had to leave the Barn earlier and therefore arrive in Haven earlier as Sarah and Lucy. If this is anywhere in the general vicinity of right, then I want to know who Lucy loved so much it kept her charged up for an extra six months. Of course, the protection from the Troubles obviously started weakening at least 3 years ago, but she was still in the Barn for noticably longer in between Lucy and Audrey. <br /> That's a lot of talking from me. In the meantime, I'm tired, it's painfully early in the morning on my side of the planet, so I'll leave it at that for now. Hoping you reply with thoughts of your own.<br />-Fire<br /><br /> broken dark firehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04572876313879674723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-62625687480337185392013-01-21T18:45:45.203-08:002013-01-21T18:45:45.203-08:00So. . . I'm not entirely convinced Vince kille...So. . . I'm not entirely convinced Vince killed the Colorado Kid, partly because I think he'd make it look like an accident rather than murder and partly because of motive. Why would he be concerned about Lucy going into the Barn? Sarah didn't resist, right? Just Lucy, months later in October? Unless they thought Lucy was supposed to go into the Barn in May. . . .? <br /><br />But there is something strange about the Colorado Kid's name not being known that suggests the Teagues' involvement. . . he had to have been in town a few days to help Lucy with the Holloway House. Wouldn't someone have known his name? Wouldn't someone have asked Lucy? Or is that in the next issue of the paper that they never showed us? <br /><br />And can we pretend that Lucy was able to summon the barn right after James was killed, rather than digging him up 5 - 6 months later? Please? C Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702192405714153388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-28111630584932039942013-01-21T17:49:44.814-08:002013-01-21T17:49:44.814-08:00As Agent Howard is a lying liar who lies, I agree....As Agent Howard is a lying liar who lies, I agree. Why would he suddenly be offering the secret of how to end the troubles (even if it's something Aud/Lu/Sar wouldn't do) after refusing to actually answer any other questions? Although, I wouldn't put it past him to have 'misremembered' the solution or misquoted it or left out an important part of it - instead of killing the one you love, it's something like love the one you killed (sort of the path Beksy was heading down below?).C Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702192405714153388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-41289908106752842112013-01-21T15:54:08.312-08:002013-01-21T15:54:08.312-08:00Oh, Naudrey shippers. I'm OT3 and Narah, but ...Oh, Naudrey shippers. I'm OT3 and Narah, but downplaying Duke's Lancelot position because Audrey (Guinevere) had the desire to say "I don't want to mess up what we have" and the power to have it both heard and respected, or because Audrey is AudSarLu and Nathan is James's father, so they're obviously endgame?<br />Eh... that's like saying (both the series and the location) Haven isn't problematic. It is problematic. It is problematic, but people can still like it. I think in Haven's case, that's because it's designed for us to have Thinks (like your awesome reviews) as well as Feels.Beksyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09666404587583822093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-36485000087907402302013-01-21T11:12:52.128-08:002013-01-21T11:12:52.128-08:00I've had my head bitten off by testy Naudrey s...I've had my head bitten off by testy Naudrey shippers, but yes, there's a symmetry in Aud/Lu/Sar's role and the Crocker role with respect to the Troubles (she tries to help/protect, Crockers try to eradicate) and obvious points of intersection, like where even she thinks a Trouble is too dangerous to continue. It seems like they should be working together, her moderating the impulse to kill the Troubled, him identifying when some Troubles are too far gone. I don't see how the relationship with Nathan has the same kind of narrative impact as one between Audrey and Duke for purposes of finding a resolution.Nyxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17196366093553460915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-3323375315196461122013-01-21T06:57:37.634-08:002013-01-21T06:57:37.634-08:00A note about 1786: it was late Confederation. The...A note about 1786: it was late Confederation. The Articles of Confederation were drafted in 1776 and 77, ratified by 1781, and lasted until the Constitution. Maine was part of Massachusetts at the time.<br /><br />Regarding love triangles and "killing the one you love": what if the form of the solution Lucy and James heard is a Gordian knot woven by Nathan and Duke with the help of Stuart Mosley? What if the original form of the solution is that AudSarLu must love a Crocker descendent enough to allow him (or her) to sacrifice her for the good of Haven? What if that all got twisted around when Mosley sent our boys back and Duke saved Roy from accidental death by chair and Nathan helped Sarah conceive James?<br />Sarah's killing Roy is what caused Simon's hatred of Lucy. He couldn't possibly have loved her, so that's a lost opportunity. However, Duke's isolation from his father's notebook and his general distrust of Simon made it possible for him to considered Audrey and the AudSarLu situation from a less biased position, making love possible.<br />The Crocker box says "love conquers all", which could mean "love conquers the trouble", and probably also means that the Crockers are involved with ending the Troubles on a global and not just individual scale. They're involved up to their eyeballs.Beksyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09666404587583822093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-26121206171109216582013-01-21T03:00:02.628-08:002013-01-21T03:00:02.628-08:00I have to agree with you Nyx about the pacing of ...I have to agree with you Nyx about the pacing of the last few episodes. I felt like I had read the first few chapters of a book and then jumped to the last few chapters. Perhaps they were uncertain of renewal and thought they should jump to all that. Though I think Audrey and her boys should have been asking why this all started from the beginning, they never seemed to really ask that much at all.<br />I think the magic probably always existed in Haven but with the settlers coming in and their interactions with the American Indian people they caused these problems (troubles). The Mi'kmaq from whose language Haven's name is originated have a great spirit (creator) Kisu'lk from whom other gods and then animals and humans came from. <br />Vince is actually younger than Dave (mentioned in S1 'As you were") although with those two you wonder if they are even real brothers and what they are still hiding. I think their power(since they told us they are not Troubled in "Business as Usual") (yeah right) works in tandem like their bicycle. They clearly showed they have killed before (when they were tied up by Arla as Tommy and were talking about "it's my turn"). Still don't know why Dave's greatest fear is Sarah. In the brief glimpses Howard showed us there seemed to be no major tension between them,I really wonder what Dave did and what the nature of their relationship with Sarah really was.<br /><br />Audrey called Howard, Morpheus which i thought was just a reference to the Matrix, but Morpheus in greek mythology is the god of dreams. He appears in the dreams of mortals and can mimick and take any human form and create ultra realistic dreams. So what if Howard was messing with us with all those 'memories' I like Howard though and I hope he doesn't die or whatever happens to someone like him. <br />It was a bit disappointing that after all the mystery of the barn, they were walking in and out of it so casually.<br /><br />I think the tattoo represents a fractured family/community that needs to navigate its way back to the centre of the maze. Or could it be a metaphor for Audrey's need to integrate her personalities to find the core one? I read somewhere that Julia Carr's tattoo was the two female-two male version though i didn't see this myself and the writers seemed to confirm this. The necklace that Lucy gave Duke also has this symbol of 4 people at the compass points and it triggered her Lucy memories. Made me wonder if it belonged to the original identity not Lucy Ripley.<br />Still have questions about Lucy and Garland and Lucy and James and Lucy and Max Hansen(if they knew each other at all). James said he came to Haven in search of his mother and met Lucy, but the poster said he was last seen leaving Colorado with a dark haired woman I had assumed was Lucy. What was Lucy's profession?<br />The Love amplifier and killing the one you love thing doesn't seem to make any sense to me either. Perhaps killing the loved one will show how much she loves Haven/The Troubled over her own chance of small periods of happiness every 27 years and would result in the curse (if it is that) lifting and the loved one would come back or become whatever Audrey is. Or alternatively, perhaps a toxic love relationship caused all the problems in the first place and destroying it makes Haven a haven again. Or most likely there is a third option which is more palatable than killing anyone. Funny how this kill someone to stop the Troubles mirrors the Crocker kill the troubled person to remove the curse from the family.<br />Finally, I have always wondered about the denim outfits worn by so many of the characters. Young Duke was in a jean jacket and jeans in the Colorado Kid picture so were Vanessa and who I now assume to be Arla. James Cogan in the Holloway house and Max Hansen when he came out of prison. it was probably just 80s fashion but still i've always been curious about it.Peridot81https://www.blogger.com/profile/03204762117936371835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-74376920319163952502013-01-20T20:40:48.242-08:002013-01-20T20:40:48.242-08:00Last one, I think. "Haven" is the trans...Last one, I think. "Haven" is the translation of a Native American name for the town, Tuwiuwok, which meant "haven for all God's orphans." Seems like the Troubles existed when Native Americans occupied the land where the town is now located. Seems like the Troubles far predate the colonial period AND the Europeans who are presumably the founding families. <br /><br />I would have far preferred that this season, rather than setting up this abbreviated rush to the Barn, had explored the origins of the Troubles. Where are the descendants of the Native Americans who named this place "haven for all God's orphans"? (And by the way, why would a native name reference a monotheistic god?) <br /><br />I think it would have been far more interesting for our intrepid threesome to have been mapping out family trees of the Troubles, trying to track them back to a common point of origin. We could have had flashbacks to past events of Troubles. More information about how the Troubles are passed in families. A Native American who has some sort of oral history about the Troubles that would be an alternate source to the Teagues. More clues to prior incarnations of Aud/Lu/Sar. I think the pacing of the series would have worked better if we'd had a slower build up to the events of this finale, because Audrey needs more information about the cause of the Troubles to be able to evaluate possible solutions.Nyxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17196366093553460915noreply@blogger.com