tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post8366168097449815034..comments2023-11-21T12:51:59.908-08:00Comments on Murderboarding Inc.: Will The Circle? Haven S5E26 Forever Anna Hammetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10095633218958433882noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-76197843663261463312016-01-07T20:24:09.219-08:002016-01-07T20:24:09.219-08:00Oh well then, thank you for saying! We're happ...Oh well then, thank you for saying! We're happy to provide inspiration, even if you're making us both feel old. ;) And frankly discovering how much we love doing this helps us figure out other directions to go, both with freelance type work and for our own education. /Ravenclaw for lifeAnna Hammetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10095633218958433882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-89852372360845893652016-01-03T22:44:30.469-08:002016-01-03T22:44:30.469-08:00Yeah, I didn't mind the Dave arc so much and u...Yeah, I didn't mind the Dave arc so much and unanswered questions are par for the course with this show, but really, they could've taken even just two minutes, just two, to actually show us Duke's death meant something...but noPaintedWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02143841248201859328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-79897980481683632972016-01-03T14:42:15.714-08:002016-01-03T14:42:15.714-08:00Thank you so much, guys, for having this blog and ...Thank you so much, guys, for having this blog and doing these recaps. I discovered the blog midway through season three and not only did it satisfy my deep need to analyze the hell out of this show, but it inspired me in real life. Now that I'm looking at potential future jobs, I think about how much fun it is picking through information of these kinds of shows, and it's inspiring. So, I'm not really exaggerating when I say your blog kind of changed my life, and I'm so glad you guys did this. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00374728225643443727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-60173837782977695992016-01-03T14:29:36.081-08:002016-01-03T14:29:36.081-08:00This is exactly how I feel about Duke's death....This is exactly how I feel about Duke's death. It was unsatisfying as hell, but I could've better rolled with it had it not been for the fact that Audrey AND Lizzy AND James (?!!!) came back against all the odds, and somehow Duke did not. I think that Duke was an even better candidate for coming back to life than Lizzy and maybe James, given that he died with so much aether in him. <br /><br />For now, I'm dealing by mentally writing a new headcanon for how I would want a theoretical season 6 to go, in which Paige remembers how much she and Nathan cared about Duke and contacts him from beyond the grave asking if he wants to come back. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00374728225643443727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-20835463504327067972015-12-30T12:44:58.896-08:002015-12-30T12:44:58.896-08:00Wrote it below, but totally agree with your point ...Wrote it below, but totally agree with your point about them having 26 episodes to get it right. My vote for biggest waste of time was the whole Dave-is-Croatoan's-puppet arc. Didn't help the story, left a bunch of NEW unanswered questions, and burned valuable time.James Fieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03278579709403454732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-64306636722389490692015-12-30T05:27:15.789-08:002015-12-30T05:27:15.789-08:00Continued...
he next thing that left me less than...Continued...<br /><br />he next thing that left me less than thrilled was the whole "Dave as otherworld orphan who is a vessel for Croatoan" angle. It would be quicker to just say that I never "got it", but I'll drag this out a little. For one thing, it just didn't feel like it added anything to the story. It felt like the writers were trying to give Dave some meaning - like they had spent 4 seasons making Vince out to be the more important brother and they realized "Oh crap! We're down to the final 26 episodes and we haven't given Dave anything cool to do." There was never any attempt to help us understand WHY Dave had been placed in our world, or by whom (yeah I'm aware "Howard" handled the adoption, but who instigated it?), and the whole missing time thing played out poorly in my estimation. Maybe it was the writing, and maybe the acting - I think John Dunsworth is a fine actor but his whole demeanor throughout these episodes was just freakish and felt way off. <br /><br />The "Dave" problem mentioned above contributed somewhat to another issue. We all know the writers went into "season 5a/b" or whatever knowing they were likely writing the last 26 episodes of the show, and had a lot to explain and wind down. But the pacing - wow it was bad. They would do basically trouble-of-the-week stuff with very little movement on the big story arc, then - in my opinion - WASTED a huge amount of time on the Dave sub-arc - when they could have spread out and paced the more important stuff. <br /><br />My thoughts on Shatner as Croatoan are along similar lines to most people - love Shatner, not so happy about the choice of him to play Croatoan. Croatoan should have been more sinister, and should have been played by a younger, more active person. Shatner is 80+ years old, can't do much more than shuffle around and sit these days, and well - he's Shatner, so I just kept seeing Captain Kirk and the Priceline Negotiator. If the show's producers thought bringing in Shatner was some way of paying off the fans at the end, they'd have been better served by urging the writers to tell the story well and get the pacing right.<br /><br />The Paige angle will never feel right to me for multiple reasons, all of which are likely shared by other folks. I think it cheapened the sacrifice that both Audrey and Nathan had made. If someone had to come back, after SO much emphasis on the show about Audrey being THE personality who was finally capable of taming Mara (and the only one Nathan loved), to hand him Paige and expect him to just get busy with her feels really false. And then there are the obvious problems with how Nathan will ever deal with her knowing about her past and other personalities, along with everyone else in town looking at her like some kind of side-show attraction...really, it's a helluva mess to leave hanging there.<br /><br />Anyway - gripes aside - I'll never regret having watched Haven (will in fact do so at least one more time all the way through just to relive it and pick up more detail). It was a fine show and will be fun to revisit. <br /><br />One more time with the Thanks - the write-ups were informative and a hoot to read.<br />James Fieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03278579709403454732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-20073169866368048062015-12-30T05:26:48.405-08:002015-12-30T05:26:48.405-08:00Let me start by saying thanks so much for the reca...Let me start by saying thanks so much for the recaps. I came to the show late (shortly after season 5 had begun) and just learned about some of the online resources this year, and this site has added so much to what I understand about the show.<br /><br />I'd also like to say that I really enjoyed Haven - which is a warning that I'm about to gripe a little, but want people to know that I wouldn't care about any of this if I hadn't cared about the story and characters.<br /><br />So a few thoughts on the overall, and the ending:<br /><br />The Trinity of Audrey, Nathan and Duke was a fun team to watch overall; they had a lot of potential and sometimes the writers and actors managed to get there. Unfortunately they failed to do so pretty often, too. For one thing, Nathan was just written to be a much weaker character than Audrey or Duke. Audrey was pretty much spot-on, both how she was written and acted, Duke I'll go into momentarily, but Nathan...he was a whiny, petulant, childish and weak character throughout so much of the show. He couldn't deal with his feelings about his dad, couldn't express his love for Audrey until he was pretty much forced into it, was a capital-A Asshole to Duke most of the series when Duke clearly deserved better. Destroying the Howard/Barn construct was childish acting-out, which was followed up by a bunch of wallowing in self-pity. I found Nathan really hard to actually like. I did like him more at the end, I think - the writers succeeded in redeeming him somewhat during the final season and especially in the last couple of episodes.<br /><br />As for Duke, like so many people, I felt he was ill-served by the writers. Telegraphing that he was going to die during the first season was bad enough (I always thought there was a different interpretation, that he would not be killed by someone with the tattoo but that instead someone with the tattoo would be reaching out to him). But over the course of several seasons the writers just shit on the character continually, making him feel unreasonable guilt over things he could not control, having other characters blame him for things he didn't do, and asking him to sacrifice more than almost anyone. And then to kill him off for such a weak reason? If the writers were just absolutely dead-set on following through with the prediction, they should have been able to give it some meaning.James Fieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03278579709403454732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-9309839663701290322015-12-26T00:46:09.654-08:002015-12-26T00:46:09.654-08:00Yeah, there have been a lot of feelings, but right...Yeah, there have been a lot of feelings, but right after, I felt kind of...numb and meh I guess which is where I felt like I'd just lost it.<br /><br />Oh, go ahead and steal away! Pirates! XD<br /><br />I've had that feeling too, even without blogging of what am I going to do with my life now that X is over!<br />Yeah, there was just so much they could've done so much fucking better, they had 26 damn episodes yet they squeezed a redemption for nothing, a death for nothing and a bit of character growth pretty much for nothing into a little more than 1 episode. Now I feel like they could've just taken a few episodes less of Duke's Adventures in Halifax, returned him to Haven sooner, and spent some time actually building up a meaningfull death for him. They might have only had 4 episodes with Shatner, but even the tiniest bit of punishment for him would've worked, too!PaintedWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02143841248201859328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-31601322578866092412015-12-24T13:41:15.460-08:002015-12-24T13:41:15.460-08:00Tumblr got a bit scary right after the finale aire...Tumblr got a bit scary right after the finale aired. I won't deny it.<br /><br />I'm not entirely sure I/we lost our emotional connection to the show so much as it definitely took a turn for the dark and the you-bastards and the painful. There were still plenty of emotions! There was just a lot less trust and a lot of feeling betrayed on behalf of Duke. All of that work and what does he get? DEAD. Even with the ghost malarky, which I still can only explain by his absorbing Walter's Trouble, whatever that is, he's still dead. The trio has lost one pillar of support, and. And. Argh. <br /><br />And I can't argue that it did take some of the punch out of Nathan deciding to let her go, and I think that's partly the writers being so so attached to the idea of Audrey and Nathan, and partly a pacing problem. Or maybe even a lack of next season problem, if they had gotten next season I'm reasonably sure they would have shown the difficulties with Nathan loving her as a different person than she is now, and Paige dealing with the weight of the expectations of Audrey. Not to mention the baby. Which is a whole other stress to a relationship that Paige doesn't even know she has, and if they'd gotten a next season, some of the writers have said she would start remembering? And maybe it would feel less like a reward. But as it was, yeah, there was no sign of growth or anything on Nathan's part, it felt much more okay you did the right thing don't worry about the rest of it. They could have had an episode between the points at the very least, though I don't know at this moment what they would have done with it. DUKE. they could have done Duke.<br /><br />Or at least given his death some meaning. Or something. Argh. So very cranky that the only thing Duke's death accomplished was, pretty much, Duke's death.<br /><br />I don't even with Croatoan and the abrupt oh hey everything's good he's in the Barnmory (we're stealing that name btw. XD) now so it's fine. I mean, the part of me that's all "Yay William Shatner" is fine with it but the rest of me is screaming mad. I'm not sure what else they could have done again, other than NOT THAT, in the short time they had available. And I mean, that's a good point about Vince, and although I fully buy that he is exactly that messed up in the head, we're not shown any progression. It's just they confront each other, try and shove CroaShatner into the barn, eventually he agrees to go after... what? We're not even shown what it is about that moment that was different from all the other No But Nathan/No But Audrey moments. Absolutely nothing. It's like they filled up an invisible progress bar. Which actually goes right along with Here Have Quest Objects, but. Argh, the more I think about this the more irritated I get, I think my brain was filling in parts from what we inferred from doing these obsessively long recaps.<br /><br />I think that's all the thoughts we have right now, but you can be SURE we have more feels. It's just holiday brain plus the crash from oh god Haven is over I've been in the recapping business for so long, now that it's over I don't know what to do with the rest of my life.<br /><br />But like Duke, we are considering piracy.Kitty Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524808952260453841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-39065507903083971922015-12-23T09:03:12.103-08:002015-12-23T09:03:12.103-08:00It's on our list of potential shows! We have s...It's on our list of potential shows! We have several others to get through first, though, including a couple shows that are renewed for next season... /semi-crypticAnna Hammetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10095633218958433882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-30683119365968624922015-12-23T09:01:41.887-08:002015-12-23T09:01:41.887-08:00You're very welcome! It's been a great dea...You're very welcome! It's been a great deal of fun to work on, and despite the ups and downs of the last season-and-some, the completionist in both of us is very, very glad we stuck with it.Anna Hammetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10095633218958433882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-15692456080738052752015-12-22T23:33:19.119-08:002015-12-22T23:33:19.119-08:00Yeah, I know. That's why I dislike it so much....Yeah, I know. That's why I dislike it so much. I would have been ok with Duke's death at any point if they'd showed us that it mattered, that it had even the smallest impact on Croatoan and his Evil Plans in the end, but. They were telling us one thing, that Duke died and saved them, but then they went and showed us that he did nothing of the sort. I don't know, I'm not sure they even realised what they did there, that Duke's death wouldn't have been cheapened by him being brought back, because it served no purpose in the overall arc anyway. <br /><br />But yeah, after thinking about it, that's the best I could get out of this, is that at least Duke thought that's what he was doing- saving everyone, that is- as he died, that he least he was able to feel that he was sacrificing himself for the good of the town, that he was finally telling his "destiny" to go fuck itself even if that's not what actually happened. It's not clear though how much Ghost!Duke knew of what went on after he disappeared though. I'd hate to imagine he realised at some point that he died for nothing! I shall choose to believe that he didn't, that he got to go wherever the hell he went (not to y'know actual hell, mind you) believing he saved his friends and got to do one last good thing before he left, or I don't know hung around watching over everyone? I'd love to imagine Ghost!Duke popping in every now and then to be all cryptic and piss everyone off.PaintedWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02143841248201859328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-42601595577650836802015-12-22T16:29:57.648-08:002015-12-22T16:29:57.648-08:00Okay but Croatoan ripped open the sky and got all ...Okay but Croatoan ripped open the sky and got all the black balls anyway so pointless sacrifice. And if ghostDuke is running around making sure Dwight!, of all people, gets his happy ending then he knew that once again Duke gets screwed. The Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10262267899515912310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-6273083315445157782015-12-22T02:14:56.583-08:002015-12-22T02:14:56.583-08:00I wish I could, but I don't understand either....I wish I could, but I don't understand either. What I'm currently having Trouble with (I really need to stop automatically typing that fucking word with a capital T) is that the writers apparently said they thought bringing Duke back would've cheapened his death and the sacrifice he made, but apparently giving Nathan Paige doesn't cheapen his being willing to let Audrey go. That's what really bothers me. Right now I'm just taking whatever bit of comfort I can from that at least Duke died believing he was saving the town, and that would've hopefully given him peace, even if he wasn't allowed his own happy ending like everyone else. PaintedWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02143841248201859328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-75016166236378058252015-12-22T02:07:25.655-08:002015-12-22T02:07:25.655-08:00I really love these recaps. I wish this site would...I really love these recaps. I wish this site would do Jessica Jones.The Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10262267899515912310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-11630442617284658232015-12-22T01:57:36.368-08:002015-12-22T01:57:36.368-08:00I don't understand how Nathan can be brought b...I don't understand how Nathan can be brought back twice and Duke...<br />What is up? What is down? Help me understand.The Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10262267899515912310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-36767530902143558192015-12-22T01:42:41.591-08:002015-12-22T01:42:41.591-08:00Helloooo! I'm all for commiseration right now,...Helloooo! I'm all for commiseration right now, still. I shall welcome anyone who would like to scream with me. There is alcohol. And cookies. Maybe a few of Duke's ridiculous early seasons sweaters to rage cry into.PaintedWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02143841248201859328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-2908879719952281262015-12-22T01:22:06.330-08:002015-12-22T01:22:06.330-08:00Again I fully support this rant. I have all the ra...Again I fully support this rant. I have all the rage tears. ALLThe Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10262267899515912310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-40412247035491138532015-12-20T22:37:01.971-08:002015-12-20T22:37:01.971-08:00But, as I've been thinking back on it and my r...But, as I've been thinking back on it and my reaction, I think I found the heart of my objection to it, which isn't about Nathan and Audrey at all, but more about what lies at the heart of my issues with this entire fucking episode: the whole time during Nathan and Paige's meet cute (which, for all my protestations, Lucas Bryant acted the shit out of that scene) I kept expecting a Duke to pop up. After all, if they can give Nathan an Audrey Adjacent and they can resurrect his dead son with rules I shall not contemplate, and they can bring Lizzie back for Dwight, why the fuck couldn't they reunite our trio and bring Duke back too? Could none of the three of them between them have come up with a plan, could we have not maybe seen them bringing Duke back and asking if he wanted to stay? I'd even be happy if Duke declined and chose to move on to that afterlife that Gloria so believes in to be reunited with Jennifer and they could play Pooh sticks in the Great Beyond or whatever, but no. Duke gets to die (for no fucking reason) and not come back and get no peace or healing whatsofuckingever, and doesn't even get much more than a knee-jerk declaration from Nathan that he was a hero. Why could he not have come back and sailed around the world again (barring that they didn't fucking destroy The Rouge too), he could've rebuilt the Gull, letting her stand once again for what she's always represented to Duke: his second chance. He could've got to know Paige and she could've loved him like Audrey did, and not just whatever memory of him Nathan and the others might conjure up for her. He could've been cool Uncle Duke to James. Gloria could've become his kind of sort of awesome mother figure, helped with some of the healing and hugs and comfort he needed, and given him all the apple juice Aaron shouldn't have just because. He could've met Lizzie and taught the whole fucking lot of them how to fish (I love the image of McHugh and Dwight as New Vince and Dave BTW- I actually expected that's what Dave and Vince would've done if they'd still been there- fish and argue). Duke and Nathan could've been proper best friends again (I shall now sing the Song of our People one more time). There are so many could'ves, and yet, the one person who deserved a happily ever after more than anyone else on this show, doesn't get one. <br />It just makes me sad, really.PaintedWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02143841248201859328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-85823182106753394692015-12-20T22:36:36.217-08:002015-12-20T22:36:36.217-08:00More unreasonably long comments:
So…I just. I some...More unreasonably long comments:<br />So…I just. I somehow lost my emotional connection to this story (possibly around the same time we lost Duke) and just…didn't like the ending. Not enough, mind you, to tarnish my love and enjoyment of this show, and probably nowhere near the kind of crap I'll no doubt come across on Tumblr when I dare to go over there but. I'm mostly happy with the way the character arcs wrapped. Nathan, who's fucked up and screwed the town over in his inability to let Audrey go, finally accepts and does just that. Audrey finds who she is, her family, her identity and did the one thing she's always wanted almost from the start: save Haven. Dwight gets Lizzie back, gets to retire and be a father again, which is at least as much a part of his identity as being a Ranger and a town protector is/was. Vince becomes just another kind of Guard(ian) for the town, and if Croatoan was just going to learn some sort of lesson I guess it works that it was the reminder of what love really is, the kind that drove a desperate man to do something crazy to save his daughter, and that after all his manipulation and fuckery he was forced to confront that he would never have gained Audrey's love the way Nathan already has. BUT. I would've accepted the abruptness of Croatoan's Heel-Face Turn if he'd showed even the slightest bit of remorse for anything he did. Choosing to power the Barn does not make amends for him killing his own wife and grandson, for all the lives he's destroyed, for what he did to Duke and Dave, for trying to take Audrey's agency away while spewing all that abusive bullshit at her. I find it difficult to accept the narrative basically telling us we should feel Croatoan has been redeemed when it hasn't shown us an ounce of him deserving it. How the fuck can Vince suddenly become BFFs with him when he fucking possessed and murdered his brother when we aren't shown them coming to some accord or Vince deciding that's the closest he'll get to Dave anymore? <br /><br />I was also bothered by the whole Paige thing, though not for the reason everyone else will be upset about it. Romance and Happily Ever After have never been lynchpins for what I love in a show and want to see in an ending. Maybe it's just the angst whore in me speaking, but a tiny part of me felt it took some of the punch out of Nathan letting Audrey go like, oh you let her go and learned your lesson, here have her back. When Nathan walked out of the Barnmory, I actually would've accepted him being the sole survivor of our Trio of Awesome, that Duke and Audrey's memories would live on in him continuing to serve and protect the town they all loved, even if from inebriated golf cart driving. Your thoughts about Paige and Nathan being able to build the life Audrey and Nathan may not have, that she'll eventually be able to come into her own with people around her who know who won't be actively trying to keep secrets from her, and who love her, and also without the constant going from one crisis and trauma to another, at least gives me something to fix on for that, mainly because one of my first thoughts was how the fuck is this going to work when she finds out about Audrey? TBC... (I'm sorry)PaintedWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02143841248201859328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271373189216022547.post-48040862441471880962015-12-19T20:44:52.809-08:002015-12-19T20:44:52.809-08:00Let me just say - THANK YOU! for taking the time i...Let me just say - THANK YOU! for taking the time in putting this blog together. I have enjoyed every single word...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17182708260064429448noreply@blogger.com